Do We All Hate Each Other or Do We 'Just Hate The French'?
Patrick Lockyer
December 29, 2008
THIS PART BY: We All Hate Each Other BY: 'Foolisht' in Salon.com:
http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=67127
Link to original comments above.
"Yesterday, whilst shopping for Christmas gifts at Borders, I found a British book called 50 Reasons to Hate the French. (Disclaimer: I'm French. The kind with a passport.) I'd thought it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. You know, "we hate the French but really we love them too, can't live with them, can't live without them." Yeah. I was wrong. It's actually a book about hating the French. One of the authors even has family and a house in France, yet maintains there's something "fishy" about the French and even wrote about a drunken evening of arguing with mayors that passed out next to their dogs in the garden like it's a bad thing. (Don't people get it yet? Arguing when you're drunk is fun.) It's not the first time I've run across Francophobia and while it still ****** me off, I'm trying to develop a better sense of humor about the whole business since it ain't going away any time soon.
The thing is, I kind of understand why some people aren't into the French. I'd hate to make a gross generalization of the French national identity, but I can acknowledge that French pride comes off as haughtiness, and the French love of arguing comes off as know-it-allness. Still. Seeing that book in the French history section of the store, next to texts about the French Revolution and the Nazi Occupation during WWII did nothing more than depress me for the rest of the afternoon. I hate to think of what I know to be a beautiful place filled with fun-loving people who genuinely enjoy the pleasures of life as a hated nation.
But I guess the same could be said about the US. I know this country to be a beautiful place filled with good people, but a lot of other people don't share that opinion. This morning I googled "hate America" and found a boatload of websites that do just that -- and with a vengeance. With a scary we-are-going-to-annihilate-you kind of vengeance. There were even anti-American books, though probably none that are readily available at Borders. Same goes for England. Same goes for Germany. Same goes for Iran. Same goes for China. Same goes for Japan. Same goes for Mexico.
My conclusion is that everyone hates everyone else.
Now I'm really depressed."
BritPatJax reply to the above comment in Salon.com
Honestly most Brits don't have real hate for anyone. At least it does not show in the recent figures. We are a lot more civilized in our soccer. We don't even have fences anymore since people were crushed. And we all sit to watch it. I have been in Crete where the Greek fans are half way up the 12-foot fence at every decision against them. We face banishment of our beloved sport so are reasonably controlled these days.
The first time I was in France in the sixties as a soldier on an assignment to SHAPE headquarters I remember not finding a single person who would admit to speaking English.(We moved the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe to Belgium after that. Perhaps we should move the UN to a more diversely minded country?) I had a great time on the Moulin Rouge though. As my signals failed on my Mercedes Staff Car I was astonished when a gendarme told me with baton and whistle that I could not got to my right where I wished to but needed to go straight as 'directed'. He tapped my right headlamp to let me know what the result of not 'complying' would be. Us Brits do not 'comply'. Terriers by nature. That´s why we stood up for Poland. No one else in Europe was going to. That same 'terrier' nature dealt with the 'Argies'. But we don't hate them either. And that despite the fact that their ace soccer player cheated us out of a second world cup with his 'hand of God'. Incredible how a whole stadium of people don't notice a hand above the head touched the ball into the net?
We hate that the French are good at rugby. And the Aussies. We hate the brutality of the French and German police when our 'boys' use charm and grace to defuse and are brave going in with out guns or batons drawn. A soccer tournament in France or Germany invariable means broken English bones in the newspaper photographs.
I have been interested in how the Americans hate the French though and have not been in support. Both the French and the Germans have good reason to be reticent about going to war and they were proved right over Iraq. There are still bone headed ´righties´ though that still wants to make issue. I meet them at events and they automatically expect me to side with their narrow mindedness. I see that same mindset in how they look at a black woman who might have struggled to be as proud as ´Hannity´ is about her country and its treatment of her people. That narrow mindedness exists in many areas here in America just as it does in many narrow minds in the UK. I just don´t want to be aligned with either branch. Another thing that strikes me about the US mentality is that over time you guys have not built up a huge ´following´ and here you are deriding the one nation that supported you and gifted you the statue of liberty. Now I don´t know about you but myself I never ever bothered to gift anyone ´twice´ who had no sense of ´gratitude´. The way I see this US derision of France is that it reminds me of the infantile behavior of a Jewish Londoner I knew whilst based in Bielefeld Germany in the sixties. He was going on leave (furlough?) and he took the time to brag to me as his senior rank, only just, that he would be taking part of his leave to do some ´blackbashing´. He lived in Brixton London which used to be the ´pits´ and that would be how he would spend his precious leave? He did not get my support then when I was young. I had had a brave moment in basic training and had talked a drunken Scot out of harming an African recruit called ´rudolf´ just by talking and not confronting whilst about 100 fellows in the long barrack pretended to be asleep. They frequently urinated on Rudolfs bed to his financial detriment. The Scot went and fought in another barrack a like-minded drunk. Rudolf was not even aware.
I could not understand how one persecuted people would take the time to persecute another persecuted people? Maybe we do it to deflect and to dissolve any ill feeling we anticipate might be directed at ´us´? I happen to think that the schoolyard bully has the same mindset and it happens on a national scale. A nation that exhorts greed will exhort it however achieved. Watch ´wonderful life´ again? There are too many today who would admire the property owner for what he had however he got it. They would have no time for the ´unfortunate´. One of the comments mentioned ´Napoleon´. Get out of here. Americans ought to mind Marie Antoinette of the French Revolution though. Don´t go telling too many Hispanics and African American to ´go eat cake´? I have a feeling that soon a Hannity follower will be like a Rev Wright follower. You wont get voted ´dogcatcher´. Get used to it. What goes around comes around.
http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=67127
Link to original comments above.
"Yesterday, whilst shopping for Christmas gifts at Borders, I found a British book called 50 Reasons to Hate the French. (Disclaimer: I'm French. The kind with a passport.) I'd thought it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. You know, "we hate the French but really we love them too, can't live with them, can't live without them." Yeah. I was wrong. It's actually a book about hating the French. One of the authors even has family and a house in France, yet maintains there's something "fishy" about the French and even wrote about a drunken evening of arguing with mayors that passed out next to their dogs in the garden like it's a bad thing. (Don't people get it yet? Arguing when you're drunk is fun.) It's not the first time I've run across Francophobia and while it still ****** me off, I'm trying to develop a better sense of humor about the whole business since it ain't going away any time soon.
The thing is, I kind of understand why some people aren't into the French. I'd hate to make a gross generalization of the French national identity, but I can acknowledge that French pride comes off as haughtiness, and the French love of arguing comes off as know-it-allness. Still. Seeing that book in the French history section of the store, next to texts about the French Revolution and the Nazi Occupation during WWII did nothing more than depress me for the rest of the afternoon. I hate to think of what I know to be a beautiful place filled with fun-loving people who genuinely enjoy the pleasures of life as a hated nation.
But I guess the same could be said about the US. I know this country to be a beautiful place filled with good people, but a lot of other people don't share that opinion. This morning I googled "hate America" and found a boatload of websites that do just that -- and with a vengeance. With a scary we-are-going-to-annihilate-you kind of vengeance. There were even anti-American books, though probably none that are readily available at Borders. Same goes for England. Same goes for Germany. Same goes for Iran. Same goes for China. Same goes for Japan. Same goes for Mexico.
My conclusion is that everyone hates everyone else.
Now I'm really depressed."
BritPatJax reply to the above comment in Salon.com
Honestly most Brits don't have real hate for anyone. At least it does not show in the recent figures. We are a lot more civilized in our soccer. We don't even have fences anymore since people were crushed. And we all sit to watch it. I have been in Crete where the Greek fans are half way up the 12-foot fence at every decision against them. We face banishment of our beloved sport so are reasonably controlled these days.
The first time I was in France in the sixties as a soldier on an assignment to SHAPE headquarters I remember not finding a single person who would admit to speaking English.(We moved the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe to Belgium after that. Perhaps we should move the UN to a more diversely minded country?) I had a great time on the Moulin Rouge though. As my signals failed on my Mercedes Staff Car I was astonished when a gendarme told me with baton and whistle that I could not got to my right where I wished to but needed to go straight as 'directed'. He tapped my right headlamp to let me know what the result of not 'complying' would be. Us Brits do not 'comply'. Terriers by nature. That´s why we stood up for Poland. No one else in Europe was going to. That same 'terrier' nature dealt with the 'Argies'. But we don't hate them either. And that despite the fact that their ace soccer player cheated us out of a second world cup with his 'hand of God'. Incredible how a whole stadium of people don't notice a hand above the head touched the ball into the net?
We hate that the French are good at rugby. And the Aussies. We hate the brutality of the French and German police when our 'boys' use charm and grace to defuse and are brave going in with out guns or batons drawn. A soccer tournament in France or Germany invariable means broken English bones in the newspaper photographs.
I have been interested in how the Americans hate the French though and have not been in support. Both the French and the Germans have good reason to be reticent about going to war and they were proved right over Iraq. There are still bone headed ´righties´ though that still wants to make issue. I meet them at events and they automatically expect me to side with their narrow mindedness. I see that same mindset in how they look at a black woman who might have struggled to be as proud as ´Hannity´ is about her country and its treatment of her people. That narrow mindedness exists in many areas here in America just as it does in many narrow minds in the UK. I just don´t want to be aligned with either branch. Another thing that strikes me about the US mentality is that over time you guys have not built up a huge ´following´ and here you are deriding the one nation that supported you and gifted you the statue of liberty. Now I don´t know about you but myself I never ever bothered to gift anyone ´twice´ who had no sense of ´gratitude´. The way I see this US derision of France is that it reminds me of the infantile behavior of a Jewish Londoner I knew whilst based in Bielefeld Germany in the sixties. He was going on leave (furlough?) and he took the time to brag to me as his senior rank, only just, that he would be taking part of his leave to do some ´blackbashing´. He lived in Brixton London which used to be the ´pits´ and that would be how he would spend his precious leave? He did not get my support then when I was young. I had had a brave moment in basic training and had talked a drunken Scot out of harming an African recruit called ´rudolf´ just by talking and not confronting whilst about 100 fellows in the long barrack pretended to be asleep. They frequently urinated on Rudolfs bed to his financial detriment. The Scot went and fought in another barrack a like-minded drunk. Rudolf was not even aware.
I could not understand how one persecuted people would take the time to persecute another persecuted people? Maybe we do it to deflect and to dissolve any ill feeling we anticipate might be directed at ´us´? I happen to think that the schoolyard bully has the same mindset and it happens on a national scale. A nation that exhorts greed will exhort it however achieved. Watch ´wonderful life´ again? There are too many today who would admire the property owner for what he had however he got it. They would have no time for the ´unfortunate´. One of the comments mentioned ´Napoleon´. Get out of here. Americans ought to mind Marie Antoinette of the French Revolution though. Don´t go telling too many Hispanics and African American to ´go eat cake´? I have a feeling that soon a Hannity follower will be like a Rev Wright follower. You wont get voted ´dogcatcher´. Get used to it. What goes around comes around.
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