CONFUSION REIGNS
Letters to the Editor
December 14, 2008
OPEN LETTER TO MR R STEFOV - RESPONSE TO ARTICLE: 21 OCTOBER 2008;
Dear Mr. R. Stefov,
I have been a quite follower of the FYROM issue for many years and I have never felt the need to respond to anyone's opinions or comments on this vexed matter of the balkans area. I must confess by reading your tirade of utter misinformation and nonsense recently on American Chronicle I was compelled to do so. I quote excerpts from your concluding article where you challenge anyone to bring forth anything,i am no historian like yourself but I am perplexed by what i see in your essay
you say .......dispute my claims with facts. Please tell me which part of the information I have written is inaccurate and show me what is accurate backed with proof and sources......and then you say.....By their own testimonies the Greeks admit that the so-called "Slavs" have been living in Macedonia since the 6th century AD, that is 1,500 years or equivalent of 75 generations. How long do a people have to live on a land before it can call itself indigenous? ..........and then you further say...............The truth is Macedonians are not "Slavs", they are Macedonians. They speak the Macedonian language practice Macedonian traditions..................have their own..............Macedonian music. Unlike the Greeks who have an imposed language, the Macedonian language is the mother tongue of the Macedonian people which has been with them for at least 75 generations. The Greek language, on the other hand, was imposed on the Greek people after Greece became a nation state for the first time in 1829.....and again you say.......Our internet warrior Greeks seem to have forgotten that modern Greece annexed 51% of Macedonia fully intact and loaded with "Slav" speaking Macedonians as recently as 1913 and those Macedonians who they call Greeks today were certainly not Greeks before 1913.
One can not fail but notice that with your reference to greeks as internet warriors you were somehow attempting to mock or demean greek people .......you could have easily started your sentence with............." Greeks seem to forget"....rather than "Our internet warrior Greeks seem to forget"...you chose a more provocative approach to put your point across and it appears that this is the writing style you wish to make use of to convey your messages, so I am sure you will not take offence if a similar style was adopted by those that don't agree with you ... So lets get all this right Risto...or would you prefer Christo...or XRisto..."bearer of christ".....Is it a coincidence sir that your first name has greek origins?.........and I also noticed your surname sir is Stefov..which I believe may mean the son of Stefan or the son of the "man with a crown"...(stefani in greek means crown)...I hope this also is not a coincidence sir, because Greek links already seem to be a part of your persona....never mind.....european history is inextricably linked to Hellenism and naturally many different cultures would have taken up greek expressions...greeks are exceptionally proud to have contributed to european culture......
You say by their own testimonies the greeks acknowledge the Slavs have been there for 75 generations, but you are not those Slavs the greeks refer to but you are macedonians but your mother tongue of the macedonian people has been with you for at least 75 generations ...
Respectfully sir it appears that you are thoroughly confused with historical facts you quote and you appear not to know where things begin and end......searching for an identity is not an easy task i can understand......in the same sentence you lay claim to a slavic past and also to some other origin......its confusing......never mind..lets move on......the world needs to know your origins so they can decide how to refer to the people north of Greece? In order to establish this we need to look at your statements are little closer so we can get a better understanding of what you are actually trying to say......
If your mother tongue as you say has been with you for 75 generations then you are slav....but if you are not a slav, then you must have adopted the slavic tongue at around 6 AD when the slavs arrived.............. and that means you must have spoken another tongue before...correct?...
Which tongue was that XRisto?, .....Do you know or have any knowledge of this "lost language".....When did "your people" actually stop speaking this language XRisto? at 6AD or sometime later?.......has anything survived to the present........do you have any elderly grandmothers in Skopje, Bitola or even at some of the villages around Florina that may still speak this other language XRisto (remember not the slavic one)?
Was it the language the pakistani prince spoke from the Hindu Kush that landed at the airport that has been named after "alexander the great"..........but I think he may be speaking Urdu..........is Urdu "macedonian" XRristo?.............
Do you know what linguistic family "the lost macedonian language " may have come from XRisto?
Was it of indo-european origin like greek?
Was it related to Illyrian, the ancient Albanian language?
Was it related to the Thracian language?
Was it related to the Greek language?
What does "macedonian" mean?
Is it a slavic word or is it a greek word? ________I am sure you are aware that it is a greek word XRisto ,,,basically it means the tall ones.......Why would you want to use a greek word to describe your identity?
I can only conclude that you must really like the connections with greeks........you have a first name, a second name and a country name all being of greek origin.....one could almost say you are a greek....or you must like all things greek.........but judging from your tirades you certainly don't appear a philhellene.....maybe its a case of self denial who knows....
What does one make of all this?..........How come the language you currently speak is exactly the same as bulgarian?....Do bulgarians subscribe to the same lineage?.....and if they don't how do you differentiate because it certainly can not be done on a language basis....Is there some other anthropological method used to do so?........
But maybe we have not approached the issue correctly ...lets look at it once more....you were "macedonians".....that started speaking slavic 75 generations ago...okay granted........
That means this "macedonian" would have been the same language that "alexander the great" spoke because now you also lay claim to "alexander the great" as well .....correct???....but from what world history tells us alexander spread the greek language..Why would he do that and not spread "your mother macedonian native indigenous language"?................
It sounds silly does it not XRisto?......unless of course he did not feel the need to promote an alternative because he was from just another greek tribe.....never mind.......
Is there anything written XRisto from around this time?
Any artefacts?...even papyri???????..something?...because I know you are heavily into proofs and sources as you state above.......or maybe an inscription on some rock or pottery or even something in a cave............................and it is here at this juncture where the big question begs to be asked XRisto............
Why would "your ancestors" accept to be recognized and identified via a greek name if they were not greek?..
surely if your predecessors spoke some other tongue and came from some other tribe, they would utilize a word from their own heritage .....Its a bit odd is it not, that an ancient proud tribe would not use a name more akin to their specific culture and language to describe themselves but rather rely on some other foreign group to "baptise" them?
It sounds silly does it not?..........
It is almost as silly as the ex-president of FYROM Gligorov saying slavmacedonian people have no connection to ancient macedonians..........but then again he may have been confused.....
You think your own ex-president was confused XRisto?....highly unlikely sir...a person of his stature would not make such a mistake.....maybe he was tired of all the propaganda from his own people and decided to state the truth.......... never mind its too confusing.............
As you can see every time we look at this heritage issue of yours it poses more questions then it answers? .....You know XRisto maybe you should consider this, you may actually be a greek who speaks slavic, I have friends that are like that.......they speak slavic but they identify themselves as greeks .....I hope you dont refer to them as traitors in some way to the "macedonian cause".................
XRisto its really sad but on the face of it, it is rather difficult to establish a direct link with an earlier culture.......it looks like we may be stuck with the slavic culture....dont despair though...its a wonderful culture........I hope you dont mind this internet warrior speaking to you in this way sir but dont forget you set the standard not I..............
I can not help but ask, are you cognisant of what you write sir? you state further above....the greek language was imposed on the greek people?
How do you impose greek on greek people? I am perplexed by this statement, if they are greek its not an imposition,....never mind its too confusing...............and on the issue of the so called 1913 annexation, I am absolutely bewildered, as I have not after searching through every historical record I could lay my hands on, being able to find the name of the country that Greece supposedly "snatched" a section of land from in 1913?......again with respect sir you are either confused or you are fabricating events to suit your purposes
every source states that this area was a part of the Ottoman Empire for over 400 years before that and prior to that a part of the Byzantine Empire for a 1000 years or so....anyway never mind....I shall keep searching.............................
Without a doubt you and your fellow slavs are looking for an identity, and you are quite entitled to do so, but this should not be done at the expense and demise of another.....Truly you are doing everyone and you self a disservice...
You would get more support if you proudly stated that you are slavic peoples and everyone would respect and embrace you,,,,, but how can you do that now, you have become extreme with your views with all this ultra nationalism and you will look silly to the world if you were to retract,,,,,,,,,,,,
You exposed your true intentions by printing maps showing the northern part of greece should belong to FYROM, you went and named your airport in Skopje, alexander the great, you are building statues of Philip his father and most recently, and this act really "takes the cake", you went and dressed up with ancient greek warrior costumes (unbelievable) at the airport.....to meet the prince from Pakistan........you can not admit that you have made some serious blunders so you will continue with your charade because otherwise you would be embarrassed.......
This has become a bit of a circus has it not XRisto ........but I fear it could also have some dire consequences for both peoples in the future, there may come a point sir where people will not tolerate, the rubbish that people like yourself are throwing out there,,,,,,,,,, your message should be one of goodwill and peace,not one of hatred, your propaganda is extremely offensive and carries racial overtones, you may inadvertently be sowing the seeds of conflict,....think long and hard................and I would suggest that you seriously take a genuine course in history and realign your thinking, and pen a little more truth and less propaganda and one good area you could start with your studies, is .....the rise and fall of the persian empire...........therein lies a glimpse of the future XRisto......this may be of great assistance, ..............
With Respect
Kon Fourtounis, South Australia
Dear Mr. R. Stefov,
I have been a quite follower of the FYROM issue for many years and I have never felt the need to respond to anyone's opinions or comments on this vexed matter of the balkans area. I must confess by reading your tirade of utter misinformation and nonsense recently on American Chronicle I was compelled to do so. I quote excerpts from your concluding article where you challenge anyone to bring forth anything,i am no historian like yourself but I am perplexed by what i see in your essay
you say .......dispute my claims with facts. Please tell me which part of the information I have written is inaccurate and show me what is accurate backed with proof and sources......and then you say.....By their own testimonies the Greeks admit that the so-called "Slavs" have been living in Macedonia since the 6th century AD, that is 1,500 years or equivalent of 75 generations. How long do a people have to live on a land before it can call itself indigenous? ..........and then you further say...............The truth is Macedonians are not "Slavs", they are Macedonians. They speak the Macedonian language practice Macedonian traditions..................have their own..............Macedonian music. Unlike the Greeks who have an imposed language, the Macedonian language is the mother tongue of the Macedonian people which has been with them for at least 75 generations. The Greek language, on the other hand, was imposed on the Greek people after Greece became a nation state for the first time in 1829.....and again you say.......Our internet warrior Greeks seem to have forgotten that modern Greece annexed 51% of Macedonia fully intact and loaded with "Slav" speaking Macedonians as recently as 1913 and those Macedonians who they call Greeks today were certainly not Greeks before 1913.
One can not fail but notice that with your reference to greeks as internet warriors you were somehow attempting to mock or demean greek people .......you could have easily started your sentence with............." Greeks seem to forget"....rather than "Our internet warrior Greeks seem to forget"...you chose a more provocative approach to put your point across and it appears that this is the writing style you wish to make use of to convey your messages, so I am sure you will not take offence if a similar style was adopted by those that don't agree with you ... So lets get all this right Risto...or would you prefer Christo...or XRisto..."bearer of christ".....Is it a coincidence sir that your first name has greek origins?.........and I also noticed your surname sir is Stefov..which I believe may mean the son of Stefan or the son of the "man with a crown"...(stefani in greek means crown)...I hope this also is not a coincidence sir, because Greek links already seem to be a part of your persona....never mind.....european history is inextricably linked to Hellenism and naturally many different cultures would have taken up greek expressions...greeks are exceptionally proud to have contributed to european culture......
You say by their own testimonies the greeks acknowledge the Slavs have been there for 75 generations, but you are not those Slavs the greeks refer to but you are macedonians but your mother tongue of the macedonian people has been with you for at least 75 generations ...
Respectfully sir it appears that you are thoroughly confused with historical facts you quote and you appear not to know where things begin and end......searching for an identity is not an easy task i can understand......in the same sentence you lay claim to a slavic past and also to some other origin......its confusing......never mind..lets move on......the world needs to know your origins so they can decide how to refer to the people north of Greece? In order to establish this we need to look at your statements are little closer so we can get a better understanding of what you are actually trying to say......
If your mother tongue as you say has been with you for 75 generations then you are slav....but if you are not a slav, then you must have adopted the slavic tongue at around 6 AD when the slavs arrived.............. and that means you must have spoken another tongue before...correct?...
Which tongue was that XRisto?, .....Do you know or have any knowledge of this "lost language".....When did "your people" actually stop speaking this language XRisto? at 6AD or sometime later?.......has anything survived to the present........do you have any elderly grandmothers in Skopje, Bitola or even at some of the villages around Florina that may still speak this other language XRisto (remember not the slavic one)?
Was it the language the pakistani prince spoke from the Hindu Kush that landed at the airport that has been named after "alexander the great"..........but I think he may be speaking Urdu..........is Urdu "macedonian" XRristo?.............
Do you know what linguistic family "the lost macedonian language " may have come from XRisto?
Was it of indo-european origin like greek?
Was it related to Illyrian, the ancient Albanian language?
Was it related to the Thracian language?
Was it related to the Greek language?
What does "macedonian" mean?
Is it a slavic word or is it a greek word? ________I am sure you are aware that it is a greek word XRisto ,,,basically it means the tall ones.......Why would you want to use a greek word to describe your identity?
I can only conclude that you must really like the connections with greeks........you have a first name, a second name and a country name all being of greek origin.....one could almost say you are a greek....or you must like all things greek.........but judging from your tirades you certainly don't appear a philhellene.....maybe its a case of self denial who knows....
What does one make of all this?..........How come the language you currently speak is exactly the same as bulgarian?....Do bulgarians subscribe to the same lineage?.....and if they don't how do you differentiate because it certainly can not be done on a language basis....Is there some other anthropological method used to do so?........
But maybe we have not approached the issue correctly ...lets look at it once more....you were "macedonians".....that started speaking slavic 75 generations ago...okay granted........
That means this "macedonian" would have been the same language that "alexander the great" spoke because now you also lay claim to "alexander the great" as well .....correct???....but from what world history tells us alexander spread the greek language..Why would he do that and not spread "your mother macedonian native indigenous language"?................
It sounds silly does it not XRisto?......unless of course he did not feel the need to promote an alternative because he was from just another greek tribe.....never mind.......
Is there anything written XRisto from around this time?
Any artefacts?...even papyri???????..something?...because I know you are heavily into proofs and sources as you state above.......or maybe an inscription on some rock or pottery or even something in a cave............................and it is here at this juncture where the big question begs to be asked XRisto............
Why would "your ancestors" accept to be recognized and identified via a greek name if they were not greek?..
surely if your predecessors spoke some other tongue and came from some other tribe, they would utilize a word from their own heritage .....Its a bit odd is it not, that an ancient proud tribe would not use a name more akin to their specific culture and language to describe themselves but rather rely on some other foreign group to "baptise" them?
It sounds silly does it not?..........
It is almost as silly as the ex-president of FYROM Gligorov saying slavmacedonian people have no connection to ancient macedonians..........but then again he may have been confused.....
You think your own ex-president was confused XRisto?....highly unlikely sir...a person of his stature would not make such a mistake.....maybe he was tired of all the propaganda from his own people and decided to state the truth.......... never mind its too confusing.............
As you can see every time we look at this heritage issue of yours it poses more questions then it answers? .....You know XRisto maybe you should consider this, you may actually be a greek who speaks slavic, I have friends that are like that.......they speak slavic but they identify themselves as greeks .....I hope you dont refer to them as traitors in some way to the "macedonian cause".................
XRisto its really sad but on the face of it, it is rather difficult to establish a direct link with an earlier culture.......it looks like we may be stuck with the slavic culture....dont despair though...its a wonderful culture........I hope you dont mind this internet warrior speaking to you in this way sir but dont forget you set the standard not I..............
I can not help but ask, are you cognisant of what you write sir? you state further above....the greek language was imposed on the greek people?
How do you impose greek on greek people? I am perplexed by this statement, if they are greek its not an imposition,....never mind its too confusing...............and on the issue of the so called 1913 annexation, I am absolutely bewildered, as I have not after searching through every historical record I could lay my hands on, being able to find the name of the country that Greece supposedly "snatched" a section of land from in 1913?......again with respect sir you are either confused or you are fabricating events to suit your purposes
every source states that this area was a part of the Ottoman Empire for over 400 years before that and prior to that a part of the Byzantine Empire for a 1000 years or so....anyway never mind....I shall keep searching.............................
Without a doubt you and your fellow slavs are looking for an identity, and you are quite entitled to do so, but this should not be done at the expense and demise of another.....Truly you are doing everyone and you self a disservice...
You would get more support if you proudly stated that you are slavic peoples and everyone would respect and embrace you,,,,, but how can you do that now, you have become extreme with your views with all this ultra nationalism and you will look silly to the world if you were to retract,,,,,,,,,,,,
You exposed your true intentions by printing maps showing the northern part of greece should belong to FYROM, you went and named your airport in Skopje, alexander the great, you are building statues of Philip his father and most recently, and this act really "takes the cake", you went and dressed up with ancient greek warrior costumes (unbelievable) at the airport.....to meet the prince from Pakistan........you can not admit that you have made some serious blunders so you will continue with your charade because otherwise you would be embarrassed.......
This has become a bit of a circus has it not XRisto ........but I fear it could also have some dire consequences for both peoples in the future, there may come a point sir where people will not tolerate, the rubbish that people like yourself are throwing out there,,,,,,,,,, your message should be one of goodwill and peace,not one of hatred, your propaganda is extremely offensive and carries racial overtones, you may inadvertently be sowing the seeds of conflict,....think long and hard................and I would suggest that you seriously take a genuine course in history and realign your thinking, and pen a little more truth and less propaganda and one good area you could start with your studies, is .....the rise and fall of the persian empire...........therein lies a glimpse of the future XRisto......this may be of great assistance, ..............
With Respect
Kon Fourtounis, South Australia
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