Modern Greece and the Macedonian Heritage – Part 32 – Conclusion
Risto Stefov
August 08, 2009
My aim in bringing you this series of articles was to show you that the Modern Greeks are not only not "pure Greeks", as they claim to be, but that they are not even "Greeks" at all. In fact, except for their proportions in various regions, the people in the entire Southern Balkans today are the same people who lived in the Balkans before the new and modern 19th century countries were created. Modern Greece, or Ellas as the Greeks like to call it, is not only not "homogenous" but the people living there are not "Hellenes" at all. The people living in the Southern Balkans today are, in modern terms, predominantly ethnic Albanians, ethnic Vlachs and ethnic Macedonians, the same kind of people (but in different proportions) that live in the Republic of Macedonia and the entire Southern Balkans for that matter. The so-called "Greek ethnic identity" is a 19th century modern phenomenon, artificially created by the 19th century Western Philhellenes.
Think about it, since Philip II conquered the City States in 338 BC there have been no borders in that entire region. The first borders were artificially erected in the 1800´s AD. This means that people for the last 2,100 years freely flowed between regions and in time of war, disease, famine and poverty moved around. In fact there is documented evidence of Byzantine Emperors, on many occasions, moving people from region to region to re-populate depleted regions, a practice that was later continued by the Ottomans.
So if anything is true about the southern Balkan people today it is that they are all of a similar stock which descended from the 19th century Albanians, Macedonians, Vlachs and all other peoples that had settled in that region over the centuries. While the Republic of Macedonia has allowed its people to self declare, Greece has opted to force a fabricated identity on its people, claiming descent from a people that disappeared a long, long time ago.
My problem here, and the Macedonian peoples´ problem in general, is not with what the Greeks do or do not claim to be but with Greek interference in Macedonian affairs! Historically Macedonia and the Macedonian people have never been Greek! In fact if we examine history we will find that the Ancient City States, the region that today constitutes the southern part of Greece, was conquered by the Macedonians. Based on that fact and the fact that those Greeks never freed themselves, we can conclude that today´s Greece belongs to the Macedonians!
That being said, however, the problem we are faced with today is not "historic" but legal. "Do Macedonians have the right to their own heritage or not?" That is, do Macedonians, under international law have the right to self declare, speak their language, identify as Macedonians and call their ancestral homeland Macedonia? This is a legal problem not a historic one.
Clearly I have given enough evidence, if not to prove, at least to place doubt on the authenticity of the Modern Greek identity and again I must ask; "By what right do Modern Greeks deny the Macedonians their rightful heritage?"
What is more interesting about this is that some "mainstream" historians and academics of today have taken the Greek side knowing full well that the Modern Greek identity is not authentic. This was done to placate Greece either because of their dedication to the "Western cause" or because of indifference to the plight of the Macedonian people. Then for the sake of "political correctness" they allowed the Greeks to go "unchallenged" and to use this "false" history as a weapon against the Macedonians to a point of absurdity, causing the Macedonian people to suffer humiliation and indignity.
Macedonians exist and are alive and well and if modern history and today´s historians cannot accept that, then we must ask the question not "if Macedonians exist" but rather "is science, that prides itself on being factual, actually authentic?" I must also add that if history is truly factual, why have modern historians utilized "Greek myths" in recording the history of Modern Greece and the Modern Greeks, why have they ignored all sources that point to a different kind of Greece?
If historians rely on the Greeks to provide them with information "about the Greeks", why not offer the Macedonians the same courtesy? Why are people like Professor Miller calling themselves scientists while peddling "pseudo" science? Are there no purists and truth seekers in science any more? Is there no longer anyone in the scientific community that cares?
It is time for those who have taken the "Greek side" to really examine their position. The fact that Greeks are not who they claim to be and the fact that Macedonians exist and are not going anywhere any time soon, should be a wake up call for them. A decision to support the "Greek side" should be based on facts and not on fiction!
There is no doubt that Greeks will attack anyone who challenges their myth but are we expected to sacrifice "science" to feed someone´s dream? And in the case of the Macedonians, are they expected to sacrifice their identity, heritage, history, language, culture and dignity in order to continue to give life to a Greek lie?
Seriously ask yourselves; Who are the Modern Greeks and what gives them the right to interfere in Macedonian affairs?
When I began this series of articles I was hoping to find some Greeks who I could identify as "authentic Greeks" so I asked around: "Show me some authentic Greeks who came from Macedonia?" To my surprise I was shown my own relatives! So then I ask "if not for the ethnic Macedonians, who are the Greeks that so many Greeks claim live in Macedonia?" The more questions I asked the more I was lead to more ethnic Macedonians, more Vlachs, more Albanians and more Christian Turk settlers from Asia Minor. One can ask this question of every Macedonian that comes from Greece and most would say; "Yes I too have relatives who identify as Greeks!" This then begs the question "who are the ´authentic´ Greeks?" I haven´t found one yet! That is why I can say with confidence that "Greeks as an authentic ethnic group do not exist". Modern Greeks are a fabrication of the Philhellene imagination. So then I ask again, what gives these so-called "charlatan Greeks" the right to call themselves Greeks and, least of all, interfere in Macedonian affairs?
While discussing this subject let us not forget that our plea as Macedonians is not about who these Greeks are but rather about basic human rights for those who want to be identified as Macedonians. Let us not forget that buried beneath the rhetoric and denials are the forgotten Macedonians who today are living inside Greece without the least of basic human rights.
If there is indeed anything in this world that needs changing it is Greece´s attitude towards its ethnic minorities living inside Greece on their own native soil.
Greece, it seems, needs "conflict" to keep its people in check. It needs enemies like the Slavs, the Turks, the Bulgars, the communists and now the "Skopians" to keep its people preoccupied and afraid. Greece needs enemies to vilify its own people who stray away from the flock. Without fear Greece is afraid it will "unravel" at the seams while ironically Greece prides itself on not having any seams. This explains Greece´s constant and unwarranted irrational behaviour towards its minorities be it in war or in peace.
The so many former Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs and others who so "easily" accepted the Philhellene indoctrination and became the "willing Greeks" who today are the "leading figures of Greece" can only be explained by the fact that these people don´t care about "who" they are as long as they possess power and wealth. This begs the question; "If they don´t care about their own true identities why should they care about who the Macedonians are?" Naturally they don´t, so this entire issue cannot be about "history" or about "identities", therefore it must be about power and wealth. Isn´t it always?
Will Greece unravel at its seams if it "de-homogenizes"? Of course not! But all the lies told in the past will be exposed! Those who built influence by barking lies and Greek propaganda will be exposed and will become the fools and laughing stock in the face of their own people. Influential and prominent Greeks can´t afford to have that happen.
Again I must emphasize strongly that I, and most Macedonians in general, have no problem with these people calling themselves Greeks and claiming the ancient Greek heritage but again I do have a problem with people who deny my right and the Macedonian people´s right to be who we are, Macedonians!
Paul wrote:
The United Nations has been largely deceived by this intricate framework of negation. Briefly, because the Macedonian-Greek "talks" about the name "Macedonia" have the blessing of the UN - the Greek attack on our sovereignty and our rights - have also been given institutional legitimacy in the UN. It is up to the Macedonians to say "the Greek position constitutes an existential threat to our right to exist" – and this should have been done 19 years ago. However, it is never too late to do this. The "illusion" is that the entire UN (world) is against us, when it is actually one or two (possibly three) states. The world and our own people need to realize this.
If one can accept that the Greek position is an attack on our State and our right to exist - the rest should be easy (one would think).
Rejecting the Greek position, on that basis, is simply a matter of taking a principled stand. Of saying 'No' to Greece because Greek terms violate our sovereignty, our self determination, and right to exist, as we are.
The World knows that the Greek position violates our rights. Our rights are enshrined in every international law, charter and treaty. We only need to ASK that our rights be respected, as we respect the rights of others. We cannot be held hostage for that, and we will free ourselves. Our enemies are few - and there is of course the rest of the world, we can embrace.
The problem for us is that our Macedonian leadership right now is inexperienced, and possibly fearful of the political damage Greece could do. I have analyzed the conditions very carefully and there is nothing more Greece can do - politically, or economically, they have not already done. If they are concerned about the term F.Y.R.O.M, they should not be. The UN has violated its own charters before, only to see the error of its ways later. These cases are well known. In any case, there are many strategies the Macedonians can use to change the term F.Y.R.O.M, which is a concern to be sure, but not something to panic about.
On the issue of "name talks". This is a euphemism. It hides the fact that the Greek position constitutes an existential threat to our State, our people and our history. There are many handbooks out there, many sophisticated works that chart ways in which elites and political actors can create, manipulate, and even dismantle the identities of ethnic groups, States and nations. (Agulhon 1981, Beaune, 1991, Corse 1996, Hobsbaum 1992). The Macedonians have given the Greek attack some legitimacy, which gives our enemies the advantage over us (even though they are few). By rejecting the Greek attack, on principled legal grounds - there is nothing more Greece can do, but change its position, or stay in limbo forever, while the little Macedonian Republic prospers, exponentially. This is why we should reject the "talks".
If, and it is a big if, the Macedonian leadership is going to be discussing anything - the first rule is it should not be one on one, with the Greeks. What the Macedonian leadership should do (they have an opportunity to do this at any time), is raise a very serious issue at the UN. The Macedonians (with the help of a sponsor), should raise the issue that the Greek position constitutes a direct attack to the Macedonian sovereignty and its right to self determination - that issue should then be put to a vote and a UN resolution. You see what I am driving at here. These "talks" have the institutional backing of the UN and the European Union (thanks to the Macedonian government) - the Greek attack has institutional backing in these institutions, because of the "talks". But Macedonia is a sovereign state, and can decide on its own. The Macedonians then have an option. They can if they chose, pass a resolution on the floor of the UN that the Greek position constitutes a direct threat to the sovereignty and right of self determination of the Macedonian people. It would be a legal position, not a historical one. On a related matter, that is why I have said that for there to be peace Greece needs to change, not Macedonia. Our minorities have their human and cultural rights - ethnic groups of Greece do not. Macedonian democracy embraces diversity, Greece is still deceiving people that it is "pure". Whether the Greek position actually constitutes an attack on our sovereignty and our rights should be (in my opinion) the ONLY thing they should be discussing, and ONLY on the floor of the UN.
This business about negotiating our Macedonian Nationality, as though it were a bargaining chip in a poker game, is deadly for us. There is a way out. I have outlined it above. I just hope we see the light."
By Paul from www.maknews.com/forum
And now I leave you with this;
A few weeks ago a friend gave me some very interesting news which may prove why Greece behaves irrationally towards the Macedonians.
He said that in the Turkish archives exists secret information of a Great Power agreement that states that "if one of the parts of divided Macedonia becomes independent all of Macedonia is to be reunited". Turkey wanted to open these archives to the Republic of Macedonia but due to objections from the "Western Powers" that information is still locked up in the archives.
This information is still at the rumour stage and could be fact or fiction, but like I said if it is fact it certainly explains Greece´s erratic behaviour. It also opens new possibilities for the Macedonian people. It is definitely worth further investigation.
If anyone out there has more information, please write me.
Author´s note:
Dear Macedonians, one way to defend ourselves from the Greek onslaught and gain back our identity and dignity is to fight back to the level to which the Greeks have reduced us; that is to attack their identity as they have attacked ours. We need prove nothing to them except to expose them as the artificial identity they truly are and to uncover their design to wipe us out in order to usurp our Macedonian heritage.
The End.
Once again I would like to thank TrueMacedonian, Paul, Osiris and others from http://www.maknews.com for their contribution to this series of articles.
You can contact the author at rstefov@hotmail.com
Think about it, since Philip II conquered the City States in 338 BC there have been no borders in that entire region. The first borders were artificially erected in the 1800´s AD. This means that people for the last 2,100 years freely flowed between regions and in time of war, disease, famine and poverty moved around. In fact there is documented evidence of Byzantine Emperors, on many occasions, moving people from region to region to re-populate depleted regions, a practice that was later continued by the Ottomans.
So if anything is true about the southern Balkan people today it is that they are all of a similar stock which descended from the 19th century Albanians, Macedonians, Vlachs and all other peoples that had settled in that region over the centuries. While the Republic of Macedonia has allowed its people to self declare, Greece has opted to force a fabricated identity on its people, claiming descent from a people that disappeared a long, long time ago.
My problem here, and the Macedonian peoples´ problem in general, is not with what the Greeks do or do not claim to be but with Greek interference in Macedonian affairs! Historically Macedonia and the Macedonian people have never been Greek! In fact if we examine history we will find that the Ancient City States, the region that today constitutes the southern part of Greece, was conquered by the Macedonians. Based on that fact and the fact that those Greeks never freed themselves, we can conclude that today´s Greece belongs to the Macedonians!
That being said, however, the problem we are faced with today is not "historic" but legal. "Do Macedonians have the right to their own heritage or not?" That is, do Macedonians, under international law have the right to self declare, speak their language, identify as Macedonians and call their ancestral homeland Macedonia? This is a legal problem not a historic one.
Clearly I have given enough evidence, if not to prove, at least to place doubt on the authenticity of the Modern Greek identity and again I must ask; "By what right do Modern Greeks deny the Macedonians their rightful heritage?"
What is more interesting about this is that some "mainstream" historians and academics of today have taken the Greek side knowing full well that the Modern Greek identity is not authentic. This was done to placate Greece either because of their dedication to the "Western cause" or because of indifference to the plight of the Macedonian people. Then for the sake of "political correctness" they allowed the Greeks to go "unchallenged" and to use this "false" history as a weapon against the Macedonians to a point of absurdity, causing the Macedonian people to suffer humiliation and indignity.
Macedonians exist and are alive and well and if modern history and today´s historians cannot accept that, then we must ask the question not "if Macedonians exist" but rather "is science, that prides itself on being factual, actually authentic?" I must also add that if history is truly factual, why have modern historians utilized "Greek myths" in recording the history of Modern Greece and the Modern Greeks, why have they ignored all sources that point to a different kind of Greece?
If historians rely on the Greeks to provide them with information "about the Greeks", why not offer the Macedonians the same courtesy? Why are people like Professor Miller calling themselves scientists while peddling "pseudo" science? Are there no purists and truth seekers in science any more? Is there no longer anyone in the scientific community that cares?
It is time for those who have taken the "Greek side" to really examine their position. The fact that Greeks are not who they claim to be and the fact that Macedonians exist and are not going anywhere any time soon, should be a wake up call for them. A decision to support the "Greek side" should be based on facts and not on fiction!
There is no doubt that Greeks will attack anyone who challenges their myth but are we expected to sacrifice "science" to feed someone´s dream? And in the case of the Macedonians, are they expected to sacrifice their identity, heritage, history, language, culture and dignity in order to continue to give life to a Greek lie?
Seriously ask yourselves; Who are the Modern Greeks and what gives them the right to interfere in Macedonian affairs?
When I began this series of articles I was hoping to find some Greeks who I could identify as "authentic Greeks" so I asked around: "Show me some authentic Greeks who came from Macedonia?" To my surprise I was shown my own relatives! So then I ask "if not for the ethnic Macedonians, who are the Greeks that so many Greeks claim live in Macedonia?" The more questions I asked the more I was lead to more ethnic Macedonians, more Vlachs, more Albanians and more Christian Turk settlers from Asia Minor. One can ask this question of every Macedonian that comes from Greece and most would say; "Yes I too have relatives who identify as Greeks!" This then begs the question "who are the ´authentic´ Greeks?" I haven´t found one yet! That is why I can say with confidence that "Greeks as an authentic ethnic group do not exist". Modern Greeks are a fabrication of the Philhellene imagination. So then I ask again, what gives these so-called "charlatan Greeks" the right to call themselves Greeks and, least of all, interfere in Macedonian affairs?
While discussing this subject let us not forget that our plea as Macedonians is not about who these Greeks are but rather about basic human rights for those who want to be identified as Macedonians. Let us not forget that buried beneath the rhetoric and denials are the forgotten Macedonians who today are living inside Greece without the least of basic human rights.
If there is indeed anything in this world that needs changing it is Greece´s attitude towards its ethnic minorities living inside Greece on their own native soil.
Greece, it seems, needs "conflict" to keep its people in check. It needs enemies like the Slavs, the Turks, the Bulgars, the communists and now the "Skopians" to keep its people preoccupied and afraid. Greece needs enemies to vilify its own people who stray away from the flock. Without fear Greece is afraid it will "unravel" at the seams while ironically Greece prides itself on not having any seams. This explains Greece´s constant and unwarranted irrational behaviour towards its minorities be it in war or in peace.
The so many former Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs and others who so "easily" accepted the Philhellene indoctrination and became the "willing Greeks" who today are the "leading figures of Greece" can only be explained by the fact that these people don´t care about "who" they are as long as they possess power and wealth. This begs the question; "If they don´t care about their own true identities why should they care about who the Macedonians are?" Naturally they don´t, so this entire issue cannot be about "history" or about "identities", therefore it must be about power and wealth. Isn´t it always?
Will Greece unravel at its seams if it "de-homogenizes"? Of course not! But all the lies told in the past will be exposed! Those who built influence by barking lies and Greek propaganda will be exposed and will become the fools and laughing stock in the face of their own people. Influential and prominent Greeks can´t afford to have that happen.
Again I must emphasize strongly that I, and most Macedonians in general, have no problem with these people calling themselves Greeks and claiming the ancient Greek heritage but again I do have a problem with people who deny my right and the Macedonian people´s right to be who we are, Macedonians!
Paul wrote:
The United Nations has been largely deceived by this intricate framework of negation. Briefly, because the Macedonian-Greek "talks" about the name "Macedonia" have the blessing of the UN - the Greek attack on our sovereignty and our rights - have also been given institutional legitimacy in the UN. It is up to the Macedonians to say "the Greek position constitutes an existential threat to our right to exist" – and this should have been done 19 years ago. However, it is never too late to do this. The "illusion" is that the entire UN (world) is against us, when it is actually one or two (possibly three) states. The world and our own people need to realize this.
If one can accept that the Greek position is an attack on our State and our right to exist - the rest should be easy (one would think).
Rejecting the Greek position, on that basis, is simply a matter of taking a principled stand. Of saying 'No' to Greece because Greek terms violate our sovereignty, our self determination, and right to exist, as we are.
The World knows that the Greek position violates our rights. Our rights are enshrined in every international law, charter and treaty. We only need to ASK that our rights be respected, as we respect the rights of others. We cannot be held hostage for that, and we will free ourselves. Our enemies are few - and there is of course the rest of the world, we can embrace.
The problem for us is that our Macedonian leadership right now is inexperienced, and possibly fearful of the political damage Greece could do. I have analyzed the conditions very carefully and there is nothing more Greece can do - politically, or economically, they have not already done. If they are concerned about the term F.Y.R.O.M, they should not be. The UN has violated its own charters before, only to see the error of its ways later. These cases are well known. In any case, there are many strategies the Macedonians can use to change the term F.Y.R.O.M, which is a concern to be sure, but not something to panic about.
On the issue of "name talks". This is a euphemism. It hides the fact that the Greek position constitutes an existential threat to our State, our people and our history. There are many handbooks out there, many sophisticated works that chart ways in which elites and political actors can create, manipulate, and even dismantle the identities of ethnic groups, States and nations. (Agulhon 1981, Beaune, 1991, Corse 1996, Hobsbaum 1992). The Macedonians have given the Greek attack some legitimacy, which gives our enemies the advantage over us (even though they are few). By rejecting the Greek attack, on principled legal grounds - there is nothing more Greece can do, but change its position, or stay in limbo forever, while the little Macedonian Republic prospers, exponentially. This is why we should reject the "talks".
If, and it is a big if, the Macedonian leadership is going to be discussing anything - the first rule is it should not be one on one, with the Greeks. What the Macedonian leadership should do (they have an opportunity to do this at any time), is raise a very serious issue at the UN. The Macedonians (with the help of a sponsor), should raise the issue that the Greek position constitutes a direct attack to the Macedonian sovereignty and its right to self determination - that issue should then be put to a vote and a UN resolution. You see what I am driving at here. These "talks" have the institutional backing of the UN and the European Union (thanks to the Macedonian government) - the Greek attack has institutional backing in these institutions, because of the "talks". But Macedonia is a sovereign state, and can decide on its own. The Macedonians then have an option. They can if they chose, pass a resolution on the floor of the UN that the Greek position constitutes a direct threat to the sovereignty and right of self determination of the Macedonian people. It would be a legal position, not a historical one. On a related matter, that is why I have said that for there to be peace Greece needs to change, not Macedonia. Our minorities have their human and cultural rights - ethnic groups of Greece do not. Macedonian democracy embraces diversity, Greece is still deceiving people that it is "pure". Whether the Greek position actually constitutes an attack on our sovereignty and our rights should be (in my opinion) the ONLY thing they should be discussing, and ONLY on the floor of the UN.
This business about negotiating our Macedonian Nationality, as though it were a bargaining chip in a poker game, is deadly for us. There is a way out. I have outlined it above. I just hope we see the light."
By Paul from www.maknews.com/forum
And now I leave you with this;
A few weeks ago a friend gave me some very interesting news which may prove why Greece behaves irrationally towards the Macedonians.
He said that in the Turkish archives exists secret information of a Great Power agreement that states that "if one of the parts of divided Macedonia becomes independent all of Macedonia is to be reunited". Turkey wanted to open these archives to the Republic of Macedonia but due to objections from the "Western Powers" that information is still locked up in the archives.
This information is still at the rumour stage and could be fact or fiction, but like I said if it is fact it certainly explains Greece´s erratic behaviour. It also opens new possibilities for the Macedonian people. It is definitely worth further investigation.
If anyone out there has more information, please write me.
Author´s note:
Dear Macedonians, one way to defend ourselves from the Greek onslaught and gain back our identity and dignity is to fight back to the level to which the Greeks have reduced us; that is to attack their identity as they have attacked ours. We need prove nothing to them except to expose them as the artificial identity they truly are and to uncover their design to wipe us out in order to usurp our Macedonian heritage.
The End.
Once again I would like to thank TrueMacedonian, Paul, Osiris and others from http://www.maknews.com for their contribution to this series of articles.
You can contact the author at rstefov@hotmail.com
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